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Rules Forum - FI 3
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Using Tech Like Genius
Posted by: Matt A (IP Logged)
Date: February 7, 2020 04:48PM

1) When opening an AMP vial, you may spend Technician points like Genius
to generate an Effect incant that you know how to deliver by Skill or Procedure from the
same Discipline.

2)"When manufacturing an AMP, you may spend Technician like Genius to
write an additional Procedure you know onto the tag."

Does using Technician Like Genius mean that it can be restored like genius?

Option 1 seems like a simple yes
Option 2 uses the same wording but seems like it may be a no.

Leader of Vanguard Squad, Archipelago Liberation Forces

Re: Using Tech Like Genius
Posted by: Ethan G (IP Logged)
Date: February 8, 2020 03:25PM

Wait you can do that?

Re: Using Tech Like Genius
Posted by: David R (IP Logged)
Date: February 10, 2020 11:19PM

There are perks that let you do that.

Re: Using Tech Like Genius
Posted by: Stu A (IP Logged)
Date: March 8, 2020 11:12AM

Spirit of the rule is generally, if the use of the skill creates a amp-device that persists between games and can be given - sold it cannot be restored.

So I believe you are correct in you assumptions.

Re: Using Tech Like Genius
Posted by: Alexander G (IP Logged)
Date: March 29, 2020 10:07PM

I have a sort of related question: if you have the ability to spend Technician/Engineering like Genius, and then you use it (or Genius) as Technician/Engineering, can that Genius, Technician, or Engineering be restored on the condition that it cannot create durable items? That is, if you have points in Genius/Technician/Engineering, and then expend those points for Technician/Engineering results, can those points be restored to provide solely Genius results?

The scenario I'd like to avoid is one in which there's a big final fight (or other reason to use a lot of Procedures) on Sunday, in which I'd have to either:
1. Hold off on making Devices until after the fight, and rush to restore all my Genius/Engineering right after the fight. This feels cheesy and overly mechanical - it relies on the fact that we have a discrete Game Off time OOG.
2. Hold off on making Devices until Sunday morning, and try to guess how many Procedures I'll need to use for the final fight (if any) and save that much Genius/Engineering. This is better; I still get more flexibility from event to event, and in theory I could use my full Genius/Engineering pool for Procedures through ~Saturday night. However, I still don't get to apply the full Genius/Engineering pool to Devices; at every event, I will be expending much less CP towards Devices than I actually could. This still feels like a somewhat arbitrary dance around the fact that we have a discrete Game Off time, but it's one that I could definitely live with more easily than (1).

My thought is: the spirit of the rule is that you can't use restores to create additional results which are durable between games. Would it then make sense to say not that CP expended to create durable results cannot be restored, but that once restored, it cannot create more durable results? In this case, if I had 5 Genius and 5 Engineering (200 CP total), I could get it restored after using it for Procedures or Devices, but could not apply more than 200 CP of skills per event towards reducing the resource costs of Devices (but I could burn ~unlimited given enough restores CP on Procedures).

Re: Using Tech Like Genius
Posted by: Stu A (IP Logged)
Date: March 30, 2020 11:10AM

I think that would make the skill sharing perks far more powerful than they are costed or intended.

I think the having to make a choice of how much of my restorable pool to use up during en event is part of the decision making trade off. I do a little at a time making amp and devices. Often before I goto bed.
I do agree with you that creates an OOG meta decision on how much to hold back that I dont like either. But leaving out the creation of items, we have the same meta math when deciding what to use for skills based on how much game is left. Our characters live on continually in this world and would have to make a decision in that big sunday battle of how much to hold in reserve in case they are bushwhacked that night in the latreen.

In short even though I dont like the meta math encroaching on my character, I dont think the device creation is a good place to bandaid it. It is a larger problem than that.

Re: Using Tech Like Genius
Posted by: Wendy M (IP Logged)
Date: March 30, 2020 11:20AM

So, I'm about to dive into this issue, with the added fun of being a Dalet, and having a fourth way to expend those same skills.

If you are making the amps and devices, then if you run of genius, you have the amps/device to pull on. If you rather would have sold them....well your going to have to get your genius restored and replace what you had to pull on. I think that's more the thinking that's in line with the shared pool. Being able to switch between each avenue when needed.

Restorative amps also help with this issue a lot. Hannah rode the lightning a lot to deal with her shared pool and limited genius.

Rymaus Liena “Ellie” Dax

Re: Using Tech Like Genius
Posted by: Alexander G (IP Logged)
Date: March 31, 2020 06:59PM

These are good points! If the ruling is no restores for {Genius,Engineering}-used-as-Engineering-to-be-used-as-Genius, it's still a cool perk and I absolutely do not regret my research.

Re: Using Tech Like Genius
Posted by: Josh M (IP Logged)
Date: April 11, 2020 10:00PM

Regarding the Original Question from Matt:
Option 1: That is meant to be treated like restorable Genius. It is creating a non-durable-good Effect, a temporary window for making a Procedural Effect happen.
Option 2: Since that is a durable AMP that can persist and be transferred, please treat that as non-restorable.

Towards Alex:
This is yet another great argument in favor of us on plot trying to concentrate “the big fight” and similar encounters on Saturday when feasible. It tends to be when we have the most players on site as well. But sometimes story demands something else. That is always going to be a tension within our rules system as written. I know many people tend to visit the Autoforge leading up to any final encounter to blow off “extra” skill points into making stuff, and I try to turn a blind eye to any last minute manufacturing if there was plenty of time in-game to do so before going to whatever is happening during the work cycle and in-game courtesy kept everything from being built. An example where this would not be true taken from FI’s past would be when Tampered were overrunning the Colony and it was a last man/woman standing fight at the elevator doors getting the last of the colonists into Aleph Complex with a contingent “burying” what Devices they couldn’t carry with them.

Generally, you should have time. Sometimes, you may not. Plan on what your character views as essential to get done.

-Josh Marcus
Head of Plot, FI 3

Re: Using Tech Like Genius
Posted by: Alexander G (IP Logged)
Date: April 12, 2020 07:44PM

That is a good philosophy to go forward with. It sounds like you are saying that Genius/Engineering spent on Devices cannot be Restored even if the Genius/Engineering can be spent only on Procedures, is that correct? Part of my confusion is that as far as I can tell, the limitation on restoring plain Engineering spent on Devices (i.e. that you can't get multiple durable effects from the same skill purchase) isn't in the rules system as written, but is instead an entirely reasonable spirit of the rule, so I would really appreciate an unambiguous declaration one way or the other. Thank you!

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