Things that are just typos, please just message me privately so as not to derail the conversation. I have actually had the mudder perk typo mentioned three times now

Whole bunch of answers per communing with my team:

Either Ecstasy of Gold is under-costed at 30 CP for 2 Uncommon Resources, or Savvy Farmer is over-costed at 20 CP for 2 Common Resources.
The perks are costed at uncommon = 15cp, common = 10cp from my read. Which is slightly different than just buying the Gather skills. I'll consult with my team.

Dodge should specify that it doesn't let you resist Stealth Procedures, unless that's something we want it to do.
Dodge is a special type of resist that only can be used on gun/ranged effects. If there was a Stealth procedure delivered by bullet, you could use dodge against it. Dodge may not be used to resist blade effects from any Discipline.

With the removal of "Slay" as a call, there should be a way to get a Melee "Pierce", if nothing else for letting plot make Melee-using Encounters. I suppose we could just go with "Damage 5" calls that kill even if we graze an arm or foot, but I prefer having a call that requires hitting a target area rather than just anywhere to have it's effect, and "Pierce" comes with that built in, causing a "Maim" on limbs and "Damage 5" to torso.
Melee pierce can not exist, pierce is only for bullets in the new rules.

The Mudder Perk should let you Harvest Refined Earth, not Biogel. I'm not sure on the balance level of the amount of work required and the potential number of times you could do it with these Harvesting Perks, but that's something we'll need to see In play to tune, if we need to. For clarity, it should state whether the other people in your group need to have the relevant Perk as well.
Typo, has been reported several times. The other members of the group are not required ot have the perk. As stated only one person in a group can be using the perk at a time so it does not matter if others do or do not have the perk for the purpose of group formation.

If someone picks up multiple Applied [Science] Perks, is a Procedure Analyzed by one Perk Analyzed for the others as well?
(edit) Consulting with my team.

There is currently no good reason to get the Automaton Master Perk, instead of a regular Math/Physics Genius Perk. Automaton Master should have some benefit to offset the restriction of only being usable to Target Automata. Also, why Physics (the Science of "Energy") and not Chem (the science of "Matter")? That part's less urgent and more philosophical.
Physics is the science from which many "to automaton" procedures originate. The perk is used as an example, a more general perk may not be allowed (it would be extremely powerful) or have much different requirements.

Field Medic lets you remove two levels of effect (convert Heal to Instant Heal) for 1 Genius. This further seems broken to me as it lets you do that with any Healing effect, even Surgery. Can we clarify this so that you can't instantly perform Surgery and remove the attendant implants? "... to remove any time-delay on the healing portion of the effect." The second half of the Perk is great as is.
Fair criticism, what you say is true. I will ask about the balancing on this perk.

Fuel-Efficient: How this interacts with procedures that have different costs will be very wonky. Not necessarily bad, but it means that the same Procedural effect having different costs in different formulations will create very different outcomes despite creating the same effect.
Yes, this is intentional. You may make two different blueprints that are about the same but have different upkeep costs. Numerically, the cost will be the same, but what resource they require might be different.

For Device Delivery methods, it doesn't state that Combat devices can be Firearms or Blades by default without increasing cost, nor whether Stealth Devices can be Blades by default without increasing their cost. How does this work now?
Any device can be a blade. You can have a "pain" blade, but if it does not have the "blade" delivery method, you may not deliver device effects through blade. For examples, see "Caustic Blade" and "Seven-barrelled mech gun".

Personal Armor versions of Smart Armor seem to be impossible. Is this intentional, "propose a Perk" territory, or accidental? Many people don't want to have to wear the bulky prop of Combat Armor and are ok with lesser protection. Is Streamlined Smart Armor meant to be this?
Streamlined smart armor is smart armor that has the same size requriements as streamlined devices. So it would not require a bulky prop as "normal" smart armor, which is Portable in size. I'm not sure what you mean by "personal armor version". To use smart armor, you still must have the appropriate purchase of armor skills.

For Power Armor, can you still use the Uses per Event (or Cost-In/Effect-Out) to deliver the effect to other people? Same question for an Environmental Suit.
If I understand your question, no. The procedure is built into power armor, allowing it to function. To build a cost in effect out device that can perform a the procedure on others, it could be possible to do this through a module of some kind.

The Recursion effects in Math must go up a Level in base effect or, when combined with a limiter, you can get infinite loops/spirals upward.
There is no possibility of an infinite loop. The recursion procedure still has the cost of a level one procedure. So "Physics, damage 1", "Math duplicate level one procedure, Physics, damage 1". Would have the cost of performing two procedures, not one. Each new recursion has a procedural cost. So, due to finite resources existing in the world (Resources, genius, CP, etc.) there is no possibility of infinite recursion.

Related to Melee lack of Slay quibble way above, I believe Backstab should be "Stealth, Pierce".
As noted above, the effect pierce is now only used as a bullet effect.

Efficient User and Recharge Device need to go up a Procedure level or they allow infinite loops and spirals upwards, as has been explored elsewhere on the Beta boards.
Probably have the same response as "recursion". I don't see the infinite loop.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 01/17/14 06:49PM

Upon consulting, Ecstasy of Gold is changing to a 40 CP cost to be in line with Gather Uncommon.

If someone picks up multiple Applied [Science] Perks, is a Procedure Analyzed by one Perk Analyzed for the others as well?
No, because each perk requires its own development action to process.

There something that's confusing me, it looks to me like it would it be possible for a anyone to buy Genius/Technician/Engineering outside of those two favored disciples, is that the case?



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 01/17/14 07:14PM

Yes. You can buy Genius / Technician / Engineering in any number of Disciplines.

Favored Disciplines do limit Applied Theory / restricted skills though: no Pierce unless you have Combat as favored or 200 CP in Combat; no making a 10 CP skill out of "Physics, Damage 2 to Automaton" unless you have Physics as favored.

Michel S Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There something that's confusing me, it looks to
> me like it would it be possible for a anyone to
> buy Genius/Technician/Engineering outside of those
> two favored disciples, is that the case?
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at 01/17/14 07:14PM

A character can buy genius, engineering, or technician in any discipline.

So I wasn't seeing things, very cool.

Lets say I wanted to make a device that worked similar to the snacky cake thing, only more of a brain shocky hat(cost in effect out), do I have to do it through Production or can Psychology restore CP other then Psychology CP?

Edit: I think I might have read this wrong, but if your a Dalet and you have Psychology Prosedure(s), doesn't that mean you can use one free Psyc prosedure every hour since you can instantly prepare a prosedure and Psychologys cost is the time of the interview?



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 01/17/14 09:04PM

> Edit: I think I might have read this wrong, but if
> your a Dalet and you have Psychology Prosedure(s),
> doesn't that mean you can use one free Psyc
> prosedure every hour since you can instantly
> prepare a prosedure and Psychologys cost is the
> time of the interview?

You may do an instant prepared procedure using the Dalet ability; it still costs resources. So you would have to pay the resource cost of the procedure.


EDIT: To answer your other question, you can make a procedure from any Discipline to restore CP. Psych is best at this. You could make "Psych, Restore 20 Psych CP" or you could be a chemist who makes "Chem, Restore 20 Bio CP", which will be one level higher than the psych procedure because Chem is not so good at skill restores.

Any effect can be done by any discipline....but it might be so difficult as to be impractical. For higher level effects it might be impossible for certain effects, just due to the level being so high as to require an impossible number of character points.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 01/17/14 11:13PM

Thank you for the answers! Excellent! I figured most of them were just things that slipped through.

A few things remain that I may need to be clearer in asking:

To be clear, we are changing Dodge to allow you to avoid a bullet-delivered Stealth attack you didn't see coming.

Automaton Master does the exact same thing as the Perks that let you interchange Genius from 2 Sciences, but only when using a Procedure on Automatons. There exists a Perk, call it "Calculating Physicist" that would let you freely substitute Physics and Math Genius for each other without the restriction. And that Perk would cost the same. That is the problem.

If I understand your answer correctly, the default delivery mechanic for a Device is by Packet? So a Combat Device with "Pierce" lets you throw a "Pierce" packet attack, and a Stealth Device with "Stealth Damage 8" lets you throw a packet with the call "Stealth Damage 8"?

I understand that the decision has been made that you must have Armor 2 to use any Smart Armor Device, but what I am trying to ask is whether you could build Smart Armor that uses a the Personal Armor rules because you find the costuming requirements for Combat Armor too onerous or not to your liking.

I still think it is a fundamental mistake to not allow either Slay or a Melee delivered Pierce. This rules choice doesn't make Melee "worse" so guns can be better so much as it makes Melee feel "wrong" by removing the need to connect with a torso to deliver their main damaging effect.

As for Infinite Loops (quoted but edited for brevity, I could describe more exploits if you like):

Based around Production Procedure Level X, "Recharge Device X", but with a limiter to make it Level X-1, "Recharge Device X to (Discipline) Device". Similarly broken results with other limiters, simply different work arounds required for the exploit of spending 1 common resource to get a level 5 effect from an X/Event device as if it were cost in effect out for a common per use.

Device 1
Level One Procedure, cost-in/effect out. Other modifiers largely irrelevant, can be upkeep free and complexity cost zero.
Production, Recharge Device 2 to Production Device.

...

Device 2
Level Two Procedure, 1/Event, Enviro Friendly for worst/best results.
Production, Recharge Device 3 to Production Device.

Device 3
Level Three Procedure, 1/Event, no upkeep just for giggles.
Production Recharge Device 4 to Production Device

...

Device 4
Level Four Procedure, 1/Event, no upkeep because why start now.
Production, Recharge Device 5 to Production Device

Device 5:
Level Five Procedure, 1/Event, still no upkeep, still complexity zero.
Production, Recharge Device 5.

...

You can use this with vanilla rechargers as you work your way up the theory tree to make smaller exploits happen, but the end result is paying a single common to get another use out of any X/Event Device in the game.

Suggested fix: Move all current and related Production Meta Procedures up one Theory Level to prevent daisy chaining like this, and cost it appropriately if moved to other disciplines.

Edit: It is possible to abuse this string infinitely by hooking it up to a Device that restores 20 or more CP, and then restoring 2 uses of the 10 CP skill that starts the string, and then spending extra uses to chain up and restore all other Skills and Genius, the skills being the only part of the chain limited by how powerful a skill restorer you've built.

-Josh
Cast



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 07/13/13 02:21PM

---

-Josh Marcus
Head of Plot, FI 3

Just noticed that Power Armor still augments the wearer's strength by 2x the Complexity Level without taking an Enhancement Slot, and as now worded it should combine nicely with any other Strength Boost Effects. This will likely cause problems later, by letting people shrug off the drawback of items having weight. I kinda like that Base Lift = Base Vitality, but this will exacerbate the problem as time goes by and Power Armor combines with this.

I am saddened that Environmental Suits will only work with Defensive Procedures, I had been looking forward to using them as unarmored lift suits, prisoner restraints, and other specialized roles.

I also noticed that the Complexity cost of Devices has increased sharply since the Beta rules, from 0/1/3/6/10/15 to 0/1/3/7/15/31. Most opinion seemed to suggest they felt to be too expensive at Beta, or at least a finer gradation was needed. Many of the modifiers have been toned down in total + to complexity, and a number of modifiers are now available without requiring a Perk. In particular, it looks like the cost of Devices have been kept from skyrocketing by simply limiting the maximum complexity of Devices.

As far as the Sample Devices go, the "Yameen Cognitive Enhancer" is going off a logic that no longer works I believe. The base procedure should probably be "Psych Restore 10 CP to Aleph Yahmeen" or upped to Level 2 and be "Psych Restore 20 CP to Aleph Yahmeen".

In the starting skills area, I noticed that the skill "Fragmentation Grenade" (Physics, Burst Damage 1) is costed as if it is a Level 3 skill, not Level 2. Is this intentional? It is costed that way in the QuickStart rules as well. I also notice that Sure Footing is costed at Level 2 with 20 CP. Considering that what it protects against is a rare source of Maim, and that it only provides a Resist To Self, it should be costed as a Level 1 at most, it seems to me. In the same vein, Escape Artist (Stealth Cure Snare to Self) is Curing a Level 1 Effect and is costed at Level 1. Might I suggest keeping it Level 1 and allowing it to Cure Bind and/or Snare? Level 1 for "Cure Bind" then +1 Level for a compound effect (Cure Snare), then -1 for To Self Only.

Regarding confusion surrounding interplay of Dalet ability and Preparing Psych Procedures, the rules specifically prohibit preparing Psych Procedures by spending Resources; they also cannot be prepared in advance and held onto (pages 21-22) . The only way to do it is by RP. I continue to recommend removing this restriction and allowing players to prepare by spending resources, if they wish. Failing that, the Psych/Dalet interplay implies they are able to get a free procedure 1/hour if they so choose.

---

-Josh Marcus
Head of Plot, FI 3

I would like to second what Josh said about enviormental suits, lifting suits and the like just feel like a staple of Sci-fi.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 01/18/14 03:00PM

Quote:
There is currently no good reason to get the Automaton Master Perk, instead of a regular Math/Physics Genius Perk. Automaton Master should have some benefit to offset the restriction of only being usable to Target Automata. Also, why Physics (the Science of "Energy") and not Chem (the science of "Matter")? That part's less urgent and more philosophical.
Physics is the science from which many "to automaton" procedures originate. The perk is used as an example, a more general perk may not be allowed (it would be extremely powerful) or have much different requirements.

Quote:
Perk: Biochemical Scientist
Requirements: Biology Genius x5, Chemistry Genius x5, 100 CP in other Biology and Chemistry Skills.
Cost: 50
Description: You may use the Biology Genius and Chemistry Genius skills in place of each other.
...
Note: Similar Perks can be researched for each pair of Disciplines.

While we're here, I believe the requirements are meant to read: "...100 CP in other Biology Skills and 100 CP in other Chemistry Skills."

Quote:
Perk: Automaton Master
Requirements: 200 CP in Physics Skills, 200 CP in Mathematics Skills, know at least 3 "To Automaton" Procedures.
Cost: 50
Description: When performing a Spontaneous Physics or Math Procedure that targets Automatons, you can spend any combination of Physics and Math Genius totaling the Procedure's level. This does not change how you create Prepared Procedures.
...

Note that Automaton Master as written won't let you participate in a Project Management use, in addition to only letting you use it on Automatons. Also, while technically the requirements are more flexible, you will likely have purchased Genius in both on the way there, and to make using the Perk actually useful somehow. Maybe this Perk becomes useful if you don't buy any Genius of one particular type and just got other skills in that Science. Not likely to happen in practice.

---

-Josh Marcus
Head of Plot, FI 3

Josh M Wrote:
> To be clear, we are changing Dodge to allow you to
> avoid a bullet-delivered Stealth attack

Dodge can be used to resist any firearm delivered effect.



> If I understand your answer correctly, the default
> delivery mechanic for a Device is by Packet?

Each procedure has an associated delivery. Each Discipline has its own default (blades for Stealth, packet for physics). So, when you make a device, the delivery method stays the same.


> what I am trying to ask is whether you
> could build Smart Armor that uses a the Personal
> Armor rules because you find the costuming
> requirements for Combat Armor too onerous or not
> to your liking.

I don't see any way to do it. Smart armor uses the smart armor rules. Smart armor can be made streamlined to have a less bulky prop requirement (see Streamlined Smart Armor under Engineering Perks).


> As for Infinite Loops
>
> Based around Production Procedure Level X,
> "Recharge Device X", but with a limiter to make it
> Level X-1, "Recharge Device X to (Discipline)
> Device". Similarly broken results with other
> limiters, simply different work arounds required
> for the exploit of spending 1 common resource to
> get a level 5 effect from an X/Event device as if
> it were cost in effect out for a common per use.

Your example requires researching five procedures, but I do not believe any of them would be approved. I'm not sure it is in the rulebook (lost during editing or something), but it is impossible to have a recharge procedure that recharges a device or repeats a procedure at a higher level.

If I have "repeat level 2 procedure" procedure that can never exist as a procedure lower than level 2. So, the chain you observed will not be a problem. In the next edition of the rulebook this will be made explicit.

I'm not sure I total understand Favored Discipline, does it mean you can only create/buy skills for you Favored Discipline, or does it effect being able to creating new procedures as well.

Example: Lets say I go Gimel and pick Chem for a second, does that mean if I buy Math Genius I can make a new level 1 Math Procedure without favoring it?

Also does your free survival skill count toward theory(all of them normally cost 20CP)?



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 01/18/14 05:03PM

> Power Armor still augments the
> wearer's strength by 2x the Complexity Level
> without taking an Enhancement Slot, and as now
> worded it should combine nicely with any other
> Strength Boost Effects.

Strength boosts are not cumulative. If I create complexity 3 power armor and it gives me strength 6, but I already have strength 5 from some other source, the end result is still only having strength 6.
On page 29 of the Quickstart Rulebook this is explicitly stated.


> I am saddened that Environmental Suits will only
> work with Defensive Procedures, I had been looking
> forward to using them as unarmored lift suits,
> prisoner restraints, and other specialized roles.

There is no reason not to create devices that you have described; instead of making them environmental suits, they are devices or modules that bestow strength, it just requires resources o. Environmental suits are mean to be hazmat suits, radiation suits, or even space suits, not superpower suits. Constant effects (with the exception of protective barriers in power armor and environmental suits) are gone.



> In the starting skills area, I noticed that the
> skill "Fragmentation Grenade" (Physics, Burst
> Damage 1) is costed as if it is a Level 3 skill,
> not Level 2. Is this intentional?
No, this is a typo. It should be the same as the core procedure (damage 2).


> Regarding confusion surrounding interplay of Dalet
> ability and Preparing Psych Procedures, the rules
> specifically prohibit preparing Psych Procedures
> by spending Resources; they also cannot be
> prepared in advance and held onto (pages 21-22) .
> The only way to do it is by RP. I continue to
> recommend removing this restriction and allowing
> players to prepare by spending resources, if they
> wish. Failing that, the Psych/Dalet interplay
> implies they are able to get a free procedure
> 1/hour if they so choose.

The Dalet skill allows instant preparation of a procedure, not an instant interview. You are right about the description on page 21-22, but it is actually incorrect. I am not sure how that got in there.

Psychologists may deliver a procedure via interview OR they may prepare a procedure normally, as another science might. The next edition of the rulebook will have this corrected.

Thank you for noticing these errors!

> I'm not sure I total understand Favored
> Discipline, does it mean you can only create/buy
> skills for you Favored Discipline, or does it
> effect being able to creating new procedures as
> well.
Favored Discipline allows you to turn a procedure you know or have invented into a skill that you may buy with character points. An example, if you are Combat Favored and you have the level 2 Combat Procedure Graze (Pain effect through firearm). I can use Applied Combat Theory to turn this into a purchasable skill for myself that costs 20 points.

> Example: Lets say I go Gimel and pick Chem for a
> second, does that mean if I buy Math Genius I can
> make a new level 1 Math Procedure without favoring
> it?
Yes

> Also does your survive skill count toward theory?

Yes

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.

Quote:
Psychologists may deliver a procedure via interview OR they may prepare a procedure normally, as another science might. The next edition of the rulebook will have this corrected.

This seems contrary to what the rest of the rulebook says as well, with the section on Psych procedures specifying a "build cost" and no preparation cost. No matter what the rule is, it should be clear and consistent (which it sounds like you're going for!) so I figured I'd point out this area as well.

Thanks for all the clarifications.

Technician Formula Problem:
Let's use Acid Burn, for this example.

Infinite Burn

Procedure: Acid Burn, "Chem, Damage 1."

[+1] Number of Procedures: 1
[+3] Self Contained Package
[+0] Addictive

Complexity: 4

+1 REF for the Procedure
+1 REF for the Packaging
-1 REF for Self Contained Package
-1 REF for Addictive

Cost: Nothing

Final Formula: "Chem, Damage 2, Addiction to Infinite Burn."
Complexity : 4
Cost: Nothing.

Unless I'm misreading this somehow, I'm guessing there's meant to be a minimum cost provision somewhere that was forgotten?

I'd like to remind that when the "no packaging" modifier was discussed on the Beta boards, we were assured that it just removed the prop, not the packaging cost. We also discussed how having anything that decreased costs would break the system in this exact fashion. Is the Addictive modifier meant to be +0 Common and not -1? As originally proposed, it gave +1 Effect for +0 Common, reducing it to +1 effect for -1 resource is no longer in the same balance point, having it be +1 Effect with +0 Cost would be.

We should probably look at the Beta boards again to refresh our memory. There were a host of issues addressed there that had been agreed should be fixed, with methods agreed upon for how to simply and easily fix them, that this revision doesn't include.

We're so close, in general, and we don't need to rehash all these discussions again when conclusions were reached, unless surrounding circumstances have changed.

---

-Josh Marcus
Head of Plot, FI 3

I think there may be a small error in your calculation. Here is how your formula comes out for me:

Procedure: Acid Burn (Chem, Damage 1)
[+1] Number of Procedures
[+3] Self Contained Package
[+0] Addictive

Complexity: 4

+1 REF for the Procedure
+1 REF for the Packaging
-0 REF for Self Contained Package
-1 REF for Addictive

Cost: 1 REF

Addictive is the only modifier that reduces cost, and only by 1 common. So it is impossible to have AMPs with no cost, unless you discover a level 0 procedure. As you observe, the best you can do is get this nice procedure at cost when you reach level 4 of technician. You are still paying for the procedure.

It's pretty explicit on page 59:

The AMP does not require any packaging or Prop. You do not need to expend an additional refined earth, and you can simply carry the folded AMP tag.

It's not just nice, it's free. Regardless, reducing cost of AMPs in this fashion is very problematic for balancing. Maybe it would work if it gave numerical effect +0 and cost -1 in exchange for the addiction. Unless the addiction mechanic is truly unremittingly awful, there is no real drawback. Currently it makes satisfying your addiction cheaper than making regular AMPs.

---

-Josh Marcus
Head of Plot, FI 3

Also, can you combine the Addictive modifier and the Designed Addiction modifier in the same AMP?

---

-Josh Marcus
Head of Plot, FI 3

You do not need to expend an additional refined earth, and you can simply carry the folded AMP tag.

Implying that there is some refined earth you are spending. I believe that statement is meant as a clarification, not an additional discount. Note resource cost is listed as +0, not -1.

> Also, can you combine the Addictive modifier and
> the Designed Addiction modifier in the same AMP?

I believe it is intended that they will always be used together.

If Self Contained Packaging is not reducing the packaging cost at all, please just remove that verbiage so there is no confusion, or please make it clearer what you are trying to say. Right now it seems to strongly imply/explicitly state a reduction of the packaging cost.

If those two modifiers can combine, there is no drawback to throwing that regular Addiction into every Designed Addiction AMP. That means that every Designed Addiction Amp is actually +3 Complexity, +4 Numerical Effect, -1 Common Cost. That's absurd.

That makes our AMP (leaving the self contained packaging out now):

Free Fire (Bottle Not Included)
Base Procedure: "Chem, Damage 1"
Final Formulation: "Chem, Damage 5, Addiction to Free Fire (Bottle Not Included)"
Complexity: 4
Cost: 1 REF (packaging)

---

-Josh Marcus
Head of Plot, FI 3



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 01/19/14 11:15PM

I guess what I'm trying to say is there shouldn't be anything that reduces the cost of either the Procedure or the making it into a freely transferable Prop to zero.

Edit: And that the current Addiction Modifiers are even more powerful than they were in the Beta rules, which also at least didn't let you cause addictiveness multiple times in the same AMP. This lets you ignore the the drawback of one of the two modifiers and still get a huge benefit.

---

-Josh Marcus
Head of Plot, FI 3



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 01/19/14 06:48PM

Edit: Sorry I'll put this on the rules board.



Edited 3 times. Last edit at 01/21/14 04:10PM

Given the number of issues that have been found, it might be worth either creating a forum section for this and have each issue have its own thread, or having multiple posts.

I noticed that Perks will no longer be teachable under the new rules (this was envisioned under the Beta, but I had hoped it would be returned). I could understand making learning them more onerous and taking a Development Action if being taught by a teacher, but right now there is no advantage to a teacher teaching someone as it still uses an entire research cycle for each pupil. I don't think this will work long term as it will make Perks exceedingly rare, even "basic" ones, like Biopsy and Engineering Perks. Among other problems it will greatly punish people learning Engineering Perks that only grab a single modifier at a time as they "should have" gotten three modifiers at once; this also removes any benefit to trying to learn Perks from NPCs.

I also noted that skills still cannot "Bestow, Restore, Create, or Heal above 1 Vitality". I don't see any problem with the Parry, Create Gruel, or Trauma Surgery Skills, and I'm pretty sure even a Restore skill wouldn't be broken as long as it can't apply to multiple targets. You can create a skill for "Burst Pierce" but not "Combat Bestow Burst Pierce through Tactics". These things can be done with Genius. If someone wants to play a Baker with Create Bread as a Skill, or a drill sergeant that is skilled at drilling marksmanship into people, how is that so problematically different from them simply using Genius to do the same thing that we need to rule out the possibility? This was discussed at length on the Beta boards, including how these restrictions had been requested to apply to Knacks, not Skills. And Knacks are gone. Please remove this restriction.

---

-Josh Marcus
Head of Plot, FI 3



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 01/20/14 01:48AM

> every Designed Addiction Amp is actually +3
> Complexity, +4 Numerical Effect, -1 Common Cost.

I think actually in this case it would be:
+3 Complexity
+3 Numerical Effect
-1 Common Cost

Which is still really good. There are some addiction-related reasons why it is not nearly as good as it sounds, but the Designed Addictive perk is probably going to be shelved, since it is vaguely worded; I don't think they are supposed to be used together after a re-read.

May I make the polite suggestion that we create new threads in the Beta Rules feedback board? I feel like there are multiple issues being discussed here that, while they do relate to the "FI2 Rules" subject of this thread, would be more easily discussed in their own threads.

The easier we make this to read and sort, the easier rulescomm (and Steph) can address concerns.

I was going to bring something new up but I will wait to see if people want to move discussion to the Beta Rules board before I chime in.

Dan: I read Designed Addiction as giving +3 (p45), and Addictive as giving +1 (p59). Is one or both of those a misprint? It's much less problematic if it goes with 1 more than the resource cost: Minor Addiction gives +0 Cost for +1 Effect, Major Addiction gives +1 Common Cost for +2 Effect, Crippling Addiction gives +1 Uncommon Cost for +3 Effect. I'm not sure why the Addiction level should key off of the Procedure it modifies rather than the benefit the modifier gives you.

---

-Josh Marcus
Head of Plot, FI 3

As these are our actual rules that we will be using, you can just use the Rules Discussion forum.

Re: Enviro Friendly cost, that was my misinterpretation getting carried over into the copyediting process.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 01/21/14 02:07PM

Josh M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dan: I read Designed Addiction as giving +3 (p45),
> and Addictive as giving +1 (p59). Is one or both
> of those a misprint?

My apologies! I actually misread both what you were saying and made a mistake when typing out a reply. Addictive Designer has a misprint, I think it should be +2, not +3. We are discussing removing it for now, since the write up of it is incorrect and vague.

Steph: Do you mean Self Contained Packaging?

---

-Josh Marcus
Head of Plot, FI 3

Yes, I do wrong version in brain.

Also, Interim packet is up!

And also Korella.

Okyanos!

Euphoria!

Equilibrium!

Equilibrium!