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Rules Forum - FI 3
Re: New Guns Rules
Posted by: Matt A (IP Logged)
Date: September 19, 2018 05:42PM
I agree... Make it simple, people mostly purchase different Guns for Character Flavor
Two 20cp skills
Leader of Vanguard Squad, Archipelago Liberation Forces
Two 20cp skills
Leader of Vanguard Squad, Archipelago Liberation Forces
Re: New Guns Rules
Posted by: Thomas G (IP Logged)
Date: September 21, 2018 05:38AM
I don't have more developed thoughts on whether making them separate skills is worth the complexity, but I think I'd disagree mildly with Ben about whether battery powered "automatic" weapons are better -- not due to rate of fire but due to requiring only the trigger hand rather than that and another to work the action (e.g usable while maimed).
I think people are basically right that the big division in usefulness is big magazines and everything else. I know that as an FI2 guns character that's been the biggest difference in effectiveness/fun.
In general I might take less of a strong stance than Ben or BP about how much to simplify or reduce cost. I tend to be somewhere between not minding and liking playing with fiddly systems, and I've pretty much never considered playing a not-guns character, so whatever the tax is I've just considered it the cost of doing business. But obviously simple is generally good.
As for total cost, 40 feels low to potentially be bringing e.g Slade-family-level hardware in to the game. To me, a lot of it probably depends on how common immunity to uncalled shots is. When just shooting something a lot will drop it, being able to fire a lot and continuously as long as you have loaded magazines is quite good. So I guess I'd disagree with (Ben?) that it mostly comes down to skills, as I feel like I've gotten a lot of milage out of relatively few offensive or defensive procedures and the current "heavy weapons." I'd be pretty happy if I'd only had to pay 1/3 the cost, the same as for 2 more genius, for it! I don't know if that would make a solely genius-based character feel sore by comparison, having never played one.
I think people are basically right that the big division in usefulness is big magazines and everything else. I know that as an FI2 guns character that's been the biggest difference in effectiveness/fun.
In general I might take less of a strong stance than Ben or BP about how much to simplify or reduce cost. I tend to be somewhere between not minding and liking playing with fiddly systems, and I've pretty much never considered playing a not-guns character, so whatever the tax is I've just considered it the cost of doing business. But obviously simple is generally good.
As for total cost, 40 feels low to potentially be bringing e.g Slade-family-level hardware in to the game. To me, a lot of it probably depends on how common immunity to uncalled shots is. When just shooting something a lot will drop it, being able to fire a lot and continuously as long as you have loaded magazines is quite good. So I guess I'd disagree with (Ben?) that it mostly comes down to skills, as I feel like I've gotten a lot of milage out of relatively few offensive or defensive procedures and the current "heavy weapons." I'd be pretty happy if I'd only had to pay 1/3 the cost, the same as for 2 more genius, for it! I don't know if that would make a solely genius-based character feel sore by comparison, having never played one.
Re: New Guns Rules
Posted by: Ryan B (IP Logged)
Date: September 21, 2018 09:25AM
So first off, apologies. It's been a tough couple of weeks and my emotions got the better of me last week. Having some downtime to think helped.
So as a potential compromise, what if we made it as follows:
Guns 1 (No Mag/Drum/Belt): 20
Guns 2 (Mag/Drum/Belt): 30
This way there's an actual sense of progression regardless of skill, theory or the like. I'm also kind of basing it on how I've personally learned to handle firearms. I started out with a pistol (Glock), moved to a rifle (AR-15), and then finally a scoped rifle (Mosin Nagant). You'd have proficiency (so any "schmuck" could use any ranged weapon with these two skills) - but to be truly effective outside of personal skill/ability, you'd then need to go with Genius/Theory and Perks.
That being said.. I feel like we should find a place for the Heavy Weapons skill. Not in terms of having it be a prerequisite to use an automatic weapon or something. But having an in-battle effect. For example:
"When using a [Guns 2] Weapon, once per encounter if you miss a called procedure, you may immediately make a second attempt using the same weapon. If you miss with the second attempt, you do not get another."
I'm not sure if that'd be better as a Perk, but if it were a Skill then it would definitely need to be a Favored/TL3 Skill. Thoughts? Would we need to spin it off into its own discussion thread?
So as a potential compromise, what if we made it as follows:
Guns 1 (No Mag/Drum/Belt): 20
Guns 2 (Mag/Drum/Belt): 30
This way there's an actual sense of progression regardless of skill, theory or the like. I'm also kind of basing it on how I've personally learned to handle firearms. I started out with a pistol (Glock), moved to a rifle (AR-15), and then finally a scoped rifle (Mosin Nagant). You'd have proficiency (so any "schmuck" could use any ranged weapon with these two skills) - but to be truly effective outside of personal skill/ability, you'd then need to go with Genius/Theory and Perks.
That being said.. I feel like we should find a place for the Heavy Weapons skill. Not in terms of having it be a prerequisite to use an automatic weapon or something. But having an in-battle effect. For example:
"When using a [Guns 2] Weapon, once per encounter if you miss a called procedure, you may immediately make a second attempt using the same weapon. If you miss with the second attempt, you do not get another."
I'm not sure if that'd be better as a Perk, but if it were a Skill then it would definitely need to be a Favored/TL3 Skill. Thoughts? Would we need to spin it off into its own discussion thread?
Re: New Guns Rules
Posted by: Ben L (IP Logged)
Date: September 21, 2018 09:44AM
Quote:
I don't have more developed thoughts on whether making them separate skills is worth the complexity, but I think I'd disagree mildly with Ben about whether battery powered "automatic" weapons are better -- not due to rate of fire but due to requiring only the trigger hand rather than that and another to work the action (e.g usable while maimed).
That's *any* flywheel gun, which are not classified as automatics generally. They're not covered by the wall of skills either. Yes, they tend to be the more high performance platforms.
Stark 999
Chief Engineer
Mimafia Operations Head
Re: New Guns Rules
Posted by: Matt A (IP Logged)
Date: September 21, 2018 06:12PM
They all have their ups and Downs... Fly Wheel Guns are great unless it rains and the darts are wet, then they are garbage. We had 5 Fly wheel guns fail on a UV mod... Glad a brought a bunch of Spring Powered ones also on that mission.
I think the millage we are getting on low capacity weapons is the Cast Player Ballance. With lower cast numbers they recycle more, and we have downtime to reload. More Cast would make fighting much more difficult just by the need to reload Magazines, and having time to reload Guns 1- 2
Leader of Vanguard Squad, Archipelago Liberation Forces
I think the millage we are getting on low capacity weapons is the Cast Player Ballance. With lower cast numbers they recycle more, and we have downtime to reload. More Cast would make fighting much more difficult just by the need to reload Magazines, and having time to reload Guns 1- 2
Leader of Vanguard Squad, Archipelago Liberation Forces
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