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FI3 Alpha Rules
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Re: Call Bloat
Posted by: Brian P (IP Logged)
Date: September 5, 2018 11:44AM

David R Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I feel like forget could easily just be replaced
> with a longer procedure call.


Indeed. Make it a Compel effect.

"Psych, Compel: You forget the last 5 minutes. You regain these memories in an hour."


Brian Paul!
-Prop Boss, Plot Team, Rules Comm, Other Stuff

Re: Call Bloat
Posted by: David R (IP Logged)
Date: September 5, 2018 11:46AM

As for stim, I think making it a rulebook call won't make anything simpler. Contingency is already in there, and people keep asking what it means. I think with stim we'll get a lot of:
Bio bestow stim heal 1 vitality after 1 minute?
What does that mean?
When you hit zero vitality, you heal one one minute later.

And that's the same process as battlestim is currently.

Re: Call Bloat
Posted by: David R (IP Logged)
Date: September 5, 2018 11:48AM

On a different topic, 'wither' seems kinda out of genre, I'd suggest a different term such as cripple, or fracture, or something along those lines.

Re: Call Bloat
Posted by: Brian P (IP Logged)
Date: September 5, 2018 12:03PM

Josh M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> “Cleave”, or “Cleave to Living”, is
> already inflicted by our Microwave Barriers under
> a longer effect call, and we are abbreviating it.
> We also have changed Death to a Level 6 Effect, so
> there is space for a lesser but still serious
> call.

> “Wither” and “Bleed” are new and novel and
> we acknowledge that, but we believe they are
> necessary to the sorts of stories we will be
> telling in the next arc.

> “Mangle” is meant to be a meaner Pierce,
> delivering the new Wither and Bleed calls based on
> location hit, but is a call we could drop if we
> need to.
>

Moving Death up to 6 is certainly a decision that makes sense to me, but adding new calls to fill in the gap seems unnecessary. You already have Damage X calls that occur at every level and fill in any gap you want. Adding more effects that are basically damage, but not really damage, are going to make things get a little hard to balance (and complex for players to react to), I'd think.

Why not upgrade Pierce to a level 4 or 5 effect that takes on what Cleave is written to do. Then Pierce is much less confusing because you don't have to wonder where you were hit. It does the same thing to all locations.

Which leads me to my next thought: Mangle. Effects that vary what they do by location adds a lot of complexity. And when a lot of combat is happening with nerf darts, you don't always know exactly where you were hit, which then leads to stops and clarifies.

FI players are very smart, and so complex effects may not concern many players, but when you flip the situation around, and you're an NPC keeping track of lots of things in your head, complex effects become a source of momentary confusion.



Brian Paul!
-Prop Boss, Plot Team, Rules Comm, Other Stuff

Re: Call Bloat
Posted by: Erin B (IP Logged)
Date: September 5, 2018 12:35PM

I don't particularly like "Forget" in general. Better to just use any one of the other mental effects that would help prevent someone from sounding an alarm IMO. I think most of the instances where this could be used to mitigate failed stealth endeavors could have been resolved that way or simply by having Cast not be as trigger-happy.

I honestly can't think of the last time that I *needed* to use a Battle Stim on anyone else, much less in the middle of a fight. It's a To Self procedure that is hardly worth Bestowing when there are much better things to throw in the Body slot post Year 1 or 2.

Couldn't we just have it understood that a Wither shot to the torso equals Bleed and to the arm/leg equals Wither? We already have similar understandings in place for Pierce so it seems like it would be simpler to acclimate to rather than adding a new call in-between.

I LOVE Reduce. Especially for newer players and even those trying to really matter in a big fight, feeling like you just wasted a high level Procedure is a huge bummer. Hearing that feedback of "it didn't work as intended but it did something" rather than nothing at all is a great way to keep everyone feeling like they are contributing. I feel that this will help us to be able to attract new players later into the arc as a result.

Re: Call Bloat
Posted by: David R (IP Logged)
Date: September 5, 2018 01:00PM

Yeah, reduce isn't a thing I'm fighting against. Just noting that it's another new call along with all the others.

Re: Call Bloat
Posted by: Josh M (IP Logged)
Date: September 5, 2018 02:11PM

Regarding “Stim” vs “Recovery”: Recovery always heals your Base Vitality. Stim Heal X can potentially heal you for much more, which is more relevant with a smaller number of Base Vitality increases and an increased number of regular Maximum Vitality purchases available. If people hate using it as an abbreviated call, we can remove it, we thought it would make gameplay easier and more accessible.

Regarding “Forget”: Yeah, making it a Compel is simpler, makes it easier to resist, and streamlines it. Works for us.

“Mangle”, “Wither”, and “Bleed”: We specifically didn’t want people yelling “Cripple” at each other, it seemed more than a little problematic. “Wither” was a better word in our estimation, but “Fracture” could work? We’re open to a good simple suggestion. I’m partial to Erin’s suggestion of consolidating “Mangle” into “Wither” (or whatever other word we use), and just having it be Location based.

I hear you BP on location based hits, but I think we agree the game benefits by using hit locations in general. Does Erin’s formulation of “Wither” seem more approachable?


-Josh Marcus
Cast, FI 2
Head of Plot, FI 3

Re: Call Bloat
Posted by: Josh M (IP Logged)
Date: September 5, 2018 02:54PM

Just received a suggestion I like:

Replace “Cleave” with “Pierce All”. Resisted like a single Pierce, if taken it counts as a Pierce having hit every location (starting with the Torso, so you could conceivably be conscious at 1 Vit but potatoed).

Thoughts?


-Josh Marcus
Cast, FI 2
Head of Plot, FI 3

Re: Call Bloat
Posted by: Brian P (IP Logged)
Date: September 5, 2018 03:20PM

Josh M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Regarding “Stim” vs “Recovery”: Recovery
> always heals your Base Vitality. Stim Heal X can
> potentially heal you for much more, which is more
> relevant with a smaller number of Base Vitality
> increases and an increased number of regular
> Maximum Vitality purchases available. If people
> hate using it as an abbreviated call, we can
> remove it, we thought it would make gameplay
> easier and more accessible.

In my opinion, adding more calls to cover something that already is covered by other calls does not make things easier. If you need to expand on the utility of what is essentially "Bestow Recovery" then I'd just add some modifier to the call, like "Bestow Full Recovery" that works like Recovery but you get back all your Vitality.

> “Mangle”, “Wither”, and “Bleed”: We
> specifically didn’t want people yelling
> “Cripple” at each other, it seemed more than a
> little problematic. “Wither” was a better word
> in our estimation, but “Fracture” could work?
> We’re open to a good simple suggestion. I’m
> partial to Erin’s suggestion of consolidating
> “Mangle” into “Wither” (or whatever other
> word we use), and just having it be Location
> based.

Consolidate! It seems like an odd choice that you felt Snare and Bind were redundant and merged them into one effect, but then added a New Maim. And it seems this new Bind is now just another version of maiming a limb. So that's three different effects doing essentially the same thing. I think you need to pick one version of this 'your limb can't be used' effect and trim the rest.

> I hear you BP on location based hits, but I think
> we agree the game benefits by using hit locations
> in general. Does Erin’s formulation of
> “Wither” seem more approachable?

No, I don't think we agree on this. An effect that only works when it hits a certain part of the body - okay fine, that's not too much to keep track of. An effect that does different things depending on where it hits you, in a game where it is difficult to tell exactly where you were hit - that is an extra cognitive load that I'd rather be using to keep track of my Vitality or some other tactical information. Yes, this very much my own opinion and I recognize that. I don't think Mangle/Pierce/whatever will break the game, I just think it would be an extra option at the cost of occasional confusion and increased learning curve.





Brian Paul!
-Prop Boss, Plot Team, Rules Comm, Other Stuff

Re: Call Bloat
Posted by: Scout R (IP Logged)
Date: September 5, 2018 11:24PM

On the recovery/stim thing, I am totally on the side of making it one call. I think there’s a mechanical point to the healing past base, but I have never seen battle stim used more than 1 vit in FI2, and I suspect big stim heals will be a rare exception rather than a rule. If there is need found later, you can always add the call then.

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